The Whiskey Drinkers Cognac (BRC S3 E7)

# AI Transcript: 

Kerry:
That last season on the show, I embarked on an amazing journey through Ireland, from Dingle to Belfast and nearly everything in between. Now I'm going to do it all over again. But this time, you're invited. That's right! Join me this September for a trip of a lifetime through the rich tapestry of Irish whiskey culture. We'll visit iconic locations such as the Titanic Experience and the new Titanic Distillery, and tour through the lush Irish landscapes and visit filming locations from the hit TV series Game of Thrones. We'll also visit historic sites including cathedrals, jails, castles and more. Plus, we'll get to distill our very own batch of Klonic Healthy Gin. To find out more or to book now, visit BarrelRoomChronicles.com and click on the Brock Tours photo. Well, hello, guys. How are you?

David:
How are you doing? Nice to have you guys. I'm good.

Kerry:
It is so fun to get to get together with you guys. I love the fact that we are talking about a cognac with a Scotchman and an Irish woman. Yeah. And an American.

David:
And a whiskey bar, too. And a whiskey bar, yes.

Kerry:
And a beautiful whiskey bar with a beautiful pot still behind us, which has a great story, which we'll talk about. So, David. And Saoirse. You guys are the main brand pushers, I guess, brand ambassadors of the Martingale?

David:
A little bit of everything. We are actually part owners. Oh, you are? So both me and Saoirse were brought in by the Thomas family. who've been making martingale or making cognac for the last hundred years over in France. So they're one of the biggest producers of cognac out there that nobody knows about. So over in the cognac world, they're super famous. Everybody knows who they are. They make a lot of cognac for houses like Martel and Hennessy, providing that beautiful liquid for them. over the last couple of years they've been starting to they wanted to fulfill their grandfather's dream of releasing their own cognac and this is what Martingale is so when they they were bringing the team together and trying to assert how they're going to bring it to the U.S. we get recruited and they're like let's go on this journey together and we'll give you all a little piece of the the business and let's go make this happen. I love it.

Kerry:
Well, I find it very interesting that we have a Scotchman and an Irish woman doing this. So let's generally start out with our whisky journeys. And I think I'll start with you, Saoirse. If you can tell me about your whisky journey and how you got your whisky journey into a cognac journey. That would be fascinating to me.

Saoirse:
Definitely. Well, firstly, Kerry, thank you so much for addressing the elephant in the room so we don't have to. We get that all the time. Sometimes people say, but there's no such thing as Irish Cognac. I say, absolutely, you are correct. There is not. The Cognac is very much from the Cognac region in the south of France and I'm from Ireland. But as David mentioned, we both have very strong backgrounds in whiskey. So I suppose you could kind of say like the industry was always in my blood. On my dad's side, my entire family always worked in hospitality and the bar business. And my grandfather, my uncle, my dad, they're all in the industry. And I actually grew up in Cork City in an apartment above our pub. So I literally grew up living in a pub. That's awesome. So yeah, I worked in a pub from a very young age. I will say the age now, and I mean, in America, we'll say labor laws are different than Europe. It's not controversial at all. Especially for family business. So yeah, I've been working for a very long time in hospitality in the bar world. And my family, we also have a microbrewery. So yeah, it's Cork Heritage Pubs is our family business. So I always kind of grew up running and working in that. And I just always loved hospitality, particularly the drink side of things. And then I pursued a degree. I did my Master's in Marketing and Management. And from that, I got a really exciting opportunity to do an internship with Print Over Card, working on Shocker, Jameson. So that was great. I didn't know they had anything to do with Jameson. Yeah, it's a very small brand. I'm surprised you're even familiar with it. So yeah, I started my internship with them and I worked for the company for a year and a half in Ireland before getting transferred to the US. And yeah, it was just a fantastic experience. I really enjoyed it. The second I landed down in Los Angeles, it just felt like home. And was there working in Southern California, and I had various roles, always concentrated on the whiskey portfolio, both Scotch and Irish. And then I was in, with Pernod for five years. Then I went back to Ireland for almost two years. I was back working in the family business and pursuing my O visa. And then I found out this opportunity, and yeah, here we are, so.

Kerry:
Okay. And David, let's talk about you and your whiskey journey slash cognac journey.

David:
Mine isn't quite as rooted in history, I guess.

Kerry:
You weren't above a pub?

David:
I've been above many pubs. It's a different story altogether. No, I came... over here came to America playing sports like a lot of like the expats did at some point and I played soccer as they call it over here down in Texas and Tennessee and got my degrees I was in conservation environmental science going to do pre-med and like a lot of people was bartending to make a little money and turned out I really enjoyed it and did that for a little while and then a couple of friends and said you know what we want to open a bar and we know how to run the business but we don't know how to run a bar essentially and they asked me to come in and run the front of the house we had somebody run in the back. And where was this at? That was in Memphis Tennessee a place called the Celtic Crossing named after all the Scots and Irish coming across. The bar is still there today It's doing really well. The original owner is still there. I left the business back in 2008, I believe, somewhere around there. And I moved around the country, Oregon, New York, and now California. And I was running the bar side of things, and eventually I got recruited by Balvenie to come and be their brand ambassador. And a few journeys along the way, I looked after private clients for them, I looked after the luxury business, we looked after the event side and different parts of that business. And I was with those guys for 10 years. I really loved it. Loved this industry. I love what it does. I love when you can actually bring a story to life. And when there's credibility behind the liquid that you're looking after and there's a family and you can call the master distiller and he picks up the phone. Things like that really intrigue me. I don't think it happens in all sides of the business. But this is kind of what brought me over and kind of tempted me to leave the Balvenie world in Glenfiddich, which I really enjoyed. to come and take this journey, so that's kind of what we got here. I came through the bar business essentially the same. It's the same, maybe just not from the family. My mom's still disappointed in the pre-med thing. Well, yeah, of course, of course.

Kerry:
What can you do? When I was in college, I was going to film school, and I applied for film school, but apparently it was impacted, so you were supposed to apply early. So even though I applied when the rest of the school was taking applications, they said, oh yeah, we're full already, try again next year. And I was like, wait, what? So I was like, okay, I'm gonna have a gap year, fine, whatever. And my mom's like, you're never going back to school. And I said, no, no, I finished the part I don't like. Now I'm gonna go get to do the part I do like. So don't worry, Mom, I'm gonna go back. And when I went back, I was like, extra units. I took as many as I could at my regular college. And then if there was a class that I really wanted that I couldn't get, but they offered it at the local city college, then I went there too. And it was, so.

David:
Yeah. School's great. I had a great time there. You learn, and as long as you get out of it what you're trying to get out of it. Yes. Some people just go and they're not really, the plan's not there, but you just gotta get the fun parts out of it.

Kerry:
Yeah, I know some people that still like, they're graduated now, and I'm like, so what are you gonna do with your degree? I don't know. And I'm like, that's that confuses me.

David:
Yeah.

Kerry:
Yeah. Anyway, which one of you were contacted first and how did they how did this family, the Martingale family or what is that?

David:
Yeah. So the Martingale is the brand name. The Thomas family who actually make the cognac, they own all their own vineyards, which is I know we'll get into the cognac itself, but very unique. kind of properties behind how the family make their cognac. But I was approached September 1st, so we're literally four or five months in, I believe. It feels like five years, but I think it's five months.

Kerry:
And were you still with the Grants at that point?

David:
I was with them during the summer, and I basically switched over and joined these guys. So I joined September 1st. At the end of the month, we were heading to Cognac to go do a press launch and see the distillery and meet the family and everything else and so yeah it was literally a whirlwind of four weeks and before I knew it I was in Cognac and seeing what we were dealing with.

Saoirse:
And then how did they come across you? So I was actively pursuing a role in Los Angeles. I wanted to kind of stay on the brand side of things. An old colleague in Pernod Ricard has said, you should reach out to Andy, who's our co-founder and CMO, who was also previously my old company. He said, you know, he's hiring for a new cognac brand. You should reach out to him. And I did. I just sent him a message on LinkedIn. It was very cheesy looking back. I was like, hello from a previous employee. I've done that before. But he's like, oh, I was expecting to hear from you. And lo and behold, then one of our other teammates, Callum, who'd be a good friend of both of ours, I also previously worked with him. So we're a company of seven. And I believe four of us were ex-Predor guard. So I didn't actually know Andy and Kim. Of course, I knew who they were. our co-founder and CEO. So yeah, so we're all kind of from the same background and it's crazy just they reached out. And you were in Ireland at the time? I was, yeah. So I already had my flights booked back and it's actually crazy how it happened. They offered me the role the evening before I was flying out. It's like less than 24 hours.

Kerry:
So did you have to change your flight to go to Cognac or did you go here first?

Saoirse:
No, I came here first and then I got settled and went to Cognac. But I was going regardless. I actually had another job in the back burner. But this job, this opportunity was just a lot more interesting for me. I think it's just so special to get to be a part of something new. And it's an experience I never had before. Like David and I have both been like so grateful, amazing that we got to work on such established brands. It's amazing to actually really get to develop one yourself and be at the start of it.

Kerry:
That's really cool. Well, We're going to talk about the cognac now, but I think it's time to taste a little bit of it so you guys can give me some information about this lovely nectar.

David:
Sure. The thing I always say is it's The difference, I think, right away between this and some other cognacs that maybe people are familiar with, they've tried, they've seen. I mean, as you're catching on the camera here, the color in this is completely different. And what the family really wanted to do is not just make another cognac that's out there. The cognacs that are out are beautiful, they're very traditional, they've been around for a long time, and they've got a very set kind of flavor camp that most of them fit into. But as Amaury would say, who's our master distiller, Amaury Thomas, He's like, it's not the only way that cognac needs to be made. It's just how we're all making it. Right. So they wanted to create a cognac that was going to be, instead of being sweet and rich and very much more of a richer oaky style, they wanted to create something that was a little bit more citrus, floral, elegant, bright, and show that when you don't add the sugars and use Boise, which is a very traditional thing to do, you can actually create something that's a different flavor.

Kerry:
So does cognac then have less strict rules as say like bourbon where you have to do this, this and this?

David:
I actually think it's a mixture of, it's very strict in the cognac world on what you're allowed to do, which type of cast, like every part of the vines, the grapes, the wine, the eau de vis are all produced in the cognac area. So I always think of the Scotch world where if the barley goes wrong in Scotland, we just buy from Denmark, we buy from Canada, wherever we can get the barley at the right level that we get. If we've a bad season, the bad harvest, that is all the wine you get. You can't go buy from elsewhere. So it's very strict on where you can get your raw material from, the size of the stills, how the stills have to be made, the double distillation, which type of oak. You can't use rum cast, you can't use ex-bourbon cast, you can't use any of these things. So very strict on this. So where you can actually develop flavour and take it, is very narrow. Yeah. Which is I think is why this is kind of stepped down. It's really brought people's attention to it. They're like, oh, I didn't even know there was another flavor direction you could go. Right. Because we can't do cast finishing. We can't do things like that.

Kerry:
Wow. So what happens if you do cast finishing? Then what does it turn into?

David:
So there's a couple out there, a few, that have the Blue Swift, is it Blue Swift?

Saoirse:
Yeah, Martel Blue Swift, yeah.

David:
So they're aged in a bourbon cask, so that is, I believe it's called a French spirit is what they call it. And please correct me if I'm wrong on that. But the bottom line is they technically couldn't call it a cognac. Now it's a delicious spirit as well, and I'm always about innovation, especially in the whisky world.

Kerry:
Can they say, like, a French spirit made in cognac?

David:
Um, I don't know how that would work. I think the cognac people would get very strict on that. It's like the word cognac, like the word champagne, all these defined regions and products, they're very protective of those words. Interesting. All right.

Kerry:
Well, seriously, I'm going to have you give me a little tasting info on this bad boy.

Saoirse:
Definitely. So what I love about Martingale is that on the nose, it's just so approachable. I personally get some very citrus notes, but interesting citrus notes. I get kind of like apricot, green apple. Definitely green apple. Almost like almond. What are those biscuits? Well, as you say here, cookies, David, that you set up in the afternoon.

David:
Those little mandolins that the French make and the guys over there. That's their favorite flavor note when we talk to the French people.

Saoirse:
It's like a dry sweetness, which I enjoy, because it's not overpowering. You can enjoy it at so many different occasions. I think cognac is very much an interesting category because it either falls into people saying, you know, high energy, nightclubs, party, you know, you're mixing it, or else it's like an old boring man in an office, or that's what my granddad drinks, or a cigar. A little fireside chat type. Yeah. But for us, I mean, it's just such an innovation product, but it's also just so diverse and you're able to enjoy it in so many different Occasions. Drinking occasions.

Kerry:
Well, I think enjoying it in the afternoon on Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles is the perfect time. So let's take a taste.

David:
I've been cheating.

Saoirse:
Yeah, same.

Kerry:
But it's a smoothness. Oh, and it's got a really great mouthfeel. It's very oily. You can see it in the legs. I don't know if the camera can catch that.

David:
Yeah, it's smooth. So again, those little things of not adding the sugar, not adding the Boise, not using the lees in the fermentation side of things, or the distillation side, sorry. allows us to really capture the wine side of it. So where we look at a lot of different cognacs, it's a lot to do with the wood and the oak and the boise that produces the aging taste that people are very familiar with. What we're trying to do is really highlight the wine itself coming through. So we use the four top crews. So we're using the Grand and Petit Champagne, the Fin Bois, but probably the one that makes us stand out the most is we use a high proportion of Borderees.

Kerry:
Okay. And in most cognacs, do they only use one grape?

David:
So yeah, so it's like 99.9% all use Uniblanc. And that's not like, it's not like you have to use... It's not, so there is a few other options that you can use that are allowed, but really the reason we're using Uniblanc is because of its high acidity. Okay. So it goes back to the fact that when you're doing this, you're harvesting the grapes, then you're making wine, and then you're going to distill. There's no real way to hold that wine. before it spoils. The high acidity means that the wine will stay fresh longer before we have to distill it. And in the cognac world, the thing that blew my mind most of anything is 31st of March, they have to stop distilling.

Saoirse:
It's crazy. They have to.

David:
By law, you're not allowed to make cognac. Why? Because the history or the theory behind it is that the wine itself would start to not be of good quality. So the cognac we produce wouldn't be good quality to be called cognac.

Kerry:
So what do the producers do after March 1st and when can they start making again?

David:
You have to wait, literally everything is one season. So now you've got stop season in the middle, you're waiting for the harvest, and you're waiting for the grapes and the wine, so everything is seasonal all the way through. So if you think of the bourbons, the Scotchies, they are running 24-7. We're going from harvest to 31st of March.

Kerry:
And then when does the harvest start again?

David:
So harvest usually comes around about the late fall into November. October time is when the harvest starts.

Kerry:
So right now the grapes are... So it's almost half a year then? Yeah. Wow.

David:
It's an amazing thought to think of when you think about how big some of these other spirits industries are and how big cognac is. It's such a massive recognized category and they've such a big spell during the year where all they're doing is praying that the grapes keep growing. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, it's...

Kerry:
Okay, so I know that this family has been making growing grapes and other cognacs have been using them forever. So how many different companies have been using their grapes and then how long has the family been doing that? I'll ask you, how long has the family been doing this and then what was the catalyst to say, you know what, why aren't we doing this for ourselves?

Saoirse:
So the Tomás family have been cognac producers, but not just producing cognac, so they actually control everything. So from grape to glass, they control and they own. So it was for a hundred years, correct David?

David:
Yes, it's 1920 was their register, but if you talk to the family, they were like, like it's the old school, right? That's just the legal day. There might have been a still at some point, somewhere in the back, but it used to be a farm. That's where it came from. They had the pigs, the sheep, the whole thing going on. And it was the grandfather at the time says, this is what we're going to focus on. We're going to focus on cognac and we're going to make this the family legacy and the family business. That's where it came from.

Saoirse:
That's why we say a hundred years in the making.

Kerry:
Yeah. And then I'm assuming that they are using things that they don't let anybody else buy from them so that they can make their stuff more popular.

David:
So there's a little bit. So the family business is making cognac that is then bought by other producers. Martel is one that we're allowed to talk about. If you actually go to the Martel distillery, Amory Thomas's face is on the wall. That's how much Martel we're making. And that's just the way that cognac's produced. The way the cognac is, it's more akin to a blended scotch than a single malt, if you want to think of that for the whisky listeners. They're actually sourcing beautiful cognacs from different producers, small, big, across the cognac region, and they're going to blend that together. So the Thomas family is one of the biggest producers of cognac for other brands. Not all the brands use the Thomas distillery cognac, But Martel and Hennessey specifically do.

Kerry:
So do they do the whole distilling process there for them?

David:
So there's different ways it can be done. You can make the eau de vis and send it or you can make different ways. But what we're doing is we're aging because we have the warehousing, we have the casts, we're able to do it all. and then we don't we don't joke around with like oh we kept all the good stuff for ourselves what they're asking for is a certain marriage of how much Borderies how much Grand Champagne do they want when they're buying from us whereas we've got our own kind of recipe or ratio that we want. With your four grapes?

Kerry:
Yeah, that represents the... And probably nobody else does the four grapes, or any four grapes.

David:
So it's the one grape, four different areas the grape's grown. So the Cognac area is so small, like everything in this bottle comes from an area the size of Central Park in New York. Okay. Everything is grown, distilled, and warehoused in this tiny little area. But the different crews or the different areas where you're allowed to grow grapes, you only have to go over a hill and the soil changes. So with that, anybody knows if you've sat through any sort of wine or listened to anybody, a sommelier at a restaurant, that soil changes what that same grape is going to produce in the end. Yeah, the terroir is very different. The terroir is huge. So each of the crews, as they call them, have a different soil type that produces a different style. For instance, the Borderees that we use here, that a lot of the, goes into making Martingale, produces a much more floral, citrus, brighter style. And that's what we kind of focus on as the signature note that comes through in ours.

Kerry:
So what is your main objective here in Los Angeles with the Martingale? Like what is your main contribution to the company to do for us?

Saoirse:
Oh, I'm like, I'm like, that's a whole other podcast. David and I are very busy. We're both, you know, used to working in very big companies and we're essentially in a startup now. So there's seven of us. And so everyone does everything. But it's amazing. It's so rewarding. I guess it's just building brand awareness, educating, you know, getting rid of sales, events, partnerships. You know, it sounds very kind of generic, but every day is different. I mean, like look at today, like this is so fun. We're here in Double Barrel in Beverly Hills talking about Martingale. You know, we could have other events over the weekend and sales calls. So I guess it's just kind of building that brand awareness and getting it in front of people and actually just teaching them about Cognac. Teaching them that Cognac is not just for the nightclubs. It's not just a dessert drink. And I always say that because Martingale is so interesting, in terms of its taste profile, it's not just for a cognac drinker. And of course, you're aware of that, and that's why you have us on your podcast.

Kerry:
Do you feel like that this is kind of a good cognac to start if you're a whiskey person wanting to start exploring cognac?

Saoirse:
I feel like it is. So that's where I say my famous line. I'm like, I deserve a copywriter thing for this. I said, Martin Gayle is like, it's the whiskey drinker's cognac. Because it has a lot of the notes, and as David said, when people think of cognac, there's certain taste profiles that they would associate with it. They think of very kind of rich, vanilla, sweet, ugginess, which isn't what you get from this. It kind of is more, what is the quote, David?

David:
It's like the structure of a... It's got the aroma of a fine wine with the structure of a good whiskey.

Kerry:
Oh, I like that too.

David:
Those are some good summaries. I have to give credit to Mr. Andy Weir, who's our marketing guru over there. He's one of the founders of Martingale as well. Actually, I should have given him some credit. He actually hired me originally for Balvenie over 12 years ago now, and we've kind of went in different directions and we've came back together. When you were asking about what we try to do on a daily basis, we've got I think everybody who's involved, even for a startup, is quite amazing. All of us have 10 years plus experience in the spirits industry from different angles. So we have our CMO, we have our CFO who are based in New York, and then we've got our four salespeople who are two in New York and two here. But because we have this experience, we're able to bounce ideas off each other and come up with different ways that we're wanting, how do we want to bring this to life? And seriously made a great point earlier about we all work with big, big brands. And we were good at what we did. We got the award, we got the high fives and everything else. But it doesn't really change things very much. When we do something amazing here and somebody talks about it and moves it, you can literally see the needle move. And you can see something starting to happen and starting to grow. And we get to meet people like yourself, Kerry, and they're like, yeah, this is delicious. Let's go talk about it on a whiskey podcast. And it's changing.

Kerry:
How much travel do you guys have to do within the US? Because I know I'm lucky enough to get both of you here today, but I'm assuming you're out and about quite a bit.

David:
I guess I'm the road warrior a little bit. I was in Vegas two weeks ago, I'm in San Francisco, Sacramento, San Jose coming up, San Diego. So I'm very much, I'm the west side of the country person, so very much focused on California right now. But when I'm off, Searshire is LA, Orange County, Valley, the whole world in this world. So yeah, we're on the road quite a bit, and it's just expanding. the wonderful scary part, I guess. It's expanding so quick and the demand from other states, people are asking us to come and where can we get it? How do we get there? Somebody asking about Vancouver in Canada. And I'm like, all right, I'll put it on the to-do list and we'll see.

Kerry:
So how many states are you in right now?

David:
So right now we're in California, New York is our big focus where we live, but we're available in Florida, Illinois, Connecticut. I'm going up to Colorado next month as well to open up that market. So we're expanding across the board, but we're also available through Reserve Bar, and I think they have 48 states or whatever they cover for their range. We're available to order in just about all states, but focused in New York and California.

Kerry:
The big, yeah.

David:
The two big ones, yeah. There's a few people here we can talk to, so it works.

Kerry:
So what are your plans for this next year to help boost?

Saoirse:
Yeah, I mean, we have a lot of plans. I mean, I think one of the most rewarding but also impactful is collaborations. Like we have a lot of really good partnerships coming up. We work with some amazing bars, restaurants, private members clubs, bloggers. So I think it's just kind of really just like booking in more of those collaborative events and tastings. I think that's just very impactful in moving the needle and building brand awareness. So my title is Advocacy and Key Account Manager, which basically means you do the ambassador type advocacy stuff, engaging with the trade and media, but then you also have your sales responsibilities and you're trying to get out there and get the product available for purchase. So I think it's a hybrid of both. I really enjoy it, but I think the big plans really goes back to collaboration.

David:
Yeah, we're doing a lot of fun stuff coming out, and Scioscia actually runs this great program where, because we actually, we were saying we own all the crews, we own all the OODAVs that we work with, we're actually able to do a deconstruction of Martingale. Which I went to, which is why I wanted to have you guys here. Yeah, so we can actually taste the four OODAVs that come together, and it's just something that like other companies can't really do because some of them are using 40, 50 different crews and stuff. And it's just an advantage you have of being a slightly smaller company, even though we are a big company. There's a hundred years of history there.

Kerry:
Plus also you're making your own eau de vie.

David:
Yeah. So that's one of the big programs we have right now. We're reaching out to people who wanted, let's go in and we'll do a tasting in your office. Let's go to your restaurant, entertain your guests, private members clubs. And when it's something new, and it's a flavor profile that people are not aware of. It's all just education. It's education, it's getting in front of it, and when you're proud of the liquid, all you have to do is get it in front of people, and then you're like, okay, so now we've got 30 new converts next, and you just keep moving on. it always kind of wins, which is the nice part. So these deconstructions is one of our big pushes that we're doing, and it's a fun event for all the USPG people and everybody else.

Saoirse:
Actually, sorry, speaking of trade, Kerry, I think your listeners would love to hear this about how we launched at Whiskey X. What? Yeah, so I think David was more involved in this program, so he could probably speak better to it. So we essentially, and please jump in at any time, we did a pop-up at Whiskey X last year, except we did not say what we were. So we had all these, people could fill out these surveys saying they would blind taste Martingale and they would say what country am I from? Do I remind you of any brand? You know, what kind of bar do you think I'm in? And I think I believe the takeaway was that a lot of people really drew a similarity between like a Japanese and an Irish whiskey. But people are saying, what country am I from? People are ticking off like this. And yeah, no one thought it was a Cognac. So I think when we say it, the whiskey drinker is Cognac. And you know, just for anyone who's maybe forgot, but like, well, why is Martin Gayle on this podcast? I think if you go back to the whiskey exits and anything your viewer would really enjoy. And maybe some of them probably were there, chatting to us, being like, what is going on?

Kerry:
Well, you guys, this has been fantastic. This has been fantastic.

David:
We should have poured you a bigger one, Kay. Well, I know. I'm out. We're both always in Spanish.

Kerry:
Just a tiny little bit left. I appreciate you guys taking time out and setting this up today for this wonderful venue to do this. It's great. Except for that refrigerator that's back there making a lot of noise.

David:
The double bar room, we should mention, were very kind to let us in here.

Kerry:
Yes, they were a double bar, or a double barrel and whiskey shop. Yes. Shoppie, as they spell it. Oh yeah, let's open, we gotta open the bottle.

Saoirse:
Yeah. Okay.

Kerry:
There we go. Got to get the pop in there. But yes, thank you so much for sharing this wonderful nectar with us. And I am a big fan. And as soon as I have $120 retail, I will go out and get myself one. Let the listeners know where they can find you guys on socials and where they can find this on the market.

David:
Sure. So mine is very easy. Mine is just martingale david leoart. Very quick and easy. I'm not sure, because I know your podcast goes out to many, many different regions, so probably the easiest way is actually on the Martingale website itself. There's a Find Me page, and we have all the stores, all the restaurants, whether New York, California, wherever you are, and then partners like Reserve Bar, if you're in, I don't know, Colorado or somewhere, and you're looking for a bottle, they can definitely make sure to get you a bottle. But the Martingale webpage itself, the Find Us pages.

Kerry:
And how expansive are you guys in Europe right now?

David:
So we actually just got some really good news that we just expanded into a few different markets in Europe, literally yesterday we found out. So, and I'm going to be very honest, I'm not an expert on this world of how the, thankfully the three tier system isn't over there, so it's a little bit easier to navigate some certain things. So it is available to purchase over there, and again through the website I'll guide you in that direction. But yeah, we're expanding into different markets in Europe by the day and we've a CFO and a CMO who are very active in this world, and they've been doing this for many, many years. Great.

Kerry:
Any other countries or regions that we might find you?

David:
Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. There's some big expansion stuff happening. If people know the cognac world, there's definitely certain countries that you would want to be targeting first. But there's also there's barriers to entry when it comes to cognac, where everybody knows the big names and it's a little bit harder for smaller brands to break through. So you've got to be strategic about it, you've got to have your plan in place, but you'll start seeing it's popping up in many places. That's fantastic.

Kerry:
Well guys, thanks again. Thank you.

Saoirse:
And Solange. Thank you. Solange. Cheers. Or Sante.

Kerry:
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