On Location at Doc Swinson's (BRC S3 E4)

AI Transcript: BRC S3E4

Kerry Moynahan:
It is 5 o'clock somewhere, and you've tuned in to Season 3, Episode 3 of BRC. For those of you who'd like to watch this episode, I highly recommend it. You can view Season 3 on our website, YouTube, Spotify, WhiskeyNetwork.net, and Zencastr. I'm Keri Moynihan, and in today's Whiskey Whereabouts, I'm on location at Doc Swinson's Blending House to catch up with master blender, Jesse Parker. Not only will we talk about and taste several of his limited edition expressions, but Jesse also gives me a tour of his bottling plant, and we choose a barrel for BRC's very first barrel pick. Then later in the show, Chef Louise Leonard joins me in tasting a sample out of our chosen barrel and comes up with a foul use for it. So kick off your shoes, pour yourself a dram, and join me for the first episode of our three-part series recorded on location in Washington state. Stay with us. Jesse Parker, how are you?

Jesse Parker:
Good, good. Good to see you.

Kerry Moynahan:
Absolutely. At the distillery where all the magic happens with all the fantastic barrels. It's been a long time in the making for me to get up here.

Jesse Parker:
I know, what, almost two years since we made a connection? I think it was one of the first podcasts I ever got on, if I remember correctly.

Kerry Moynahan:
Yeah, I think it was. I think it was your very first.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, first or second, somewhere in there. So I hope my presence is even better.

Kerry Moynahan:
So I'm here today. Well, first of all, we're going to do a barrel pick for Barroom Chronicles. So we're going to taste some barrels in a little bit. But of course we need to taste some other fancy things. And then we were walking around earlier and you were showing me all the stuff you did last year in 2022, which was how many different expressions?

Jesse Parker:
About 16 different expressions that fit into 2022 and a similar in 2023 as well. That's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot of blending, but that's what we do here, right?

Kerry Moynahan:
Right. That's a blending place. Um, so tell me, how many do you think you're going to be doing for 2024? Do you have an idea yet?

Jesse Parker:
Okay. So my last two years, I really wanted to focus on, um, producing and understanding as many unique profiles as I possibly can. And now my goal is to refine some of them as well as only produce a handful of unique ones on top of the ones I did in the past. Okay, so what I want to do is do larger releases to cover more of the country, right? So I may have only done two to four barrels of a specific finish last year now I want to move that into maybe eight or twelve barrels so I can actually get two more people because once again You only do two three barrels you end up with only a few hundred bottles and everybody's like, well, where is it? Well, it's gone.

Kerry Moynahan:
It's old already It's over there and not there exactly

Jesse Parker:
So the big goal is to make some larger batches and put those out on the market. And of course, improve them if we can.

Kerry Moynahan:
Fantastic. So still black label is your core expressions, correct?

Jesse Parker:
Exactly. Our core expressions you should be able to find at your local retailer all the time is the idea, right? And that's these black labels right here. And then the white labels are LTOs. Those are the ones I may never make again. So they are truly possibly just the only time you'll ever get them.

Kerry Moynahan:
Limited time offers. OK. Yeah. Well, can we taste any of these limited time offers?

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, absolutely. I wouldn't mind talking about this one though. This has been kind of a fun experiment. So Doc Swinson's is focusing on blending and finishing, right? That's our whole goal here. After all, the majority of the flavor profiles come from the cask in a whiskey, right? Correct. So this is where we wanted to put like, you know, hanger hat saying, this is what matters for us is maturation. And you can tell by the hundreds of barrels sitting on the other side of the cameras here.

Kerry Moynahan:
There's tons of barrels here.

Jesse Parker:
It's beautiful. And we curate those barrels. I look for different suppliers overseas in order to bring them in. And I want to make those relationships as fluid as possible, because I love working with people that can tell me, oh, this is where this barrel came from in our processing. Right. Where did you get these tiny ports from? So unfortunately, I can't actually say the brand name at this point in time.

Kerry Moynahan:
I've been working on it. Is it a country?

Jesse Parker:
Yes, Portugal. Absolutely, yes. These came from Porto, Portugal, where port is made. Just like the Mosquetel de Setúbel is right behind there. Those are all from just outside of Lisbon, actually, and it's a lesser-known fortified wine that's absolutely gorgeous, especially in the summertime. Fantastic. Yeah, and fall. It kind of tastes like those orange peels dipped in you know, like an orange liqueur, like a Grand Marnier with sugar and chocolate on them. It's gorgeous. You don't see a lot of that. But this one in particular is a newer release under our core line, something that we've put out this year. And it's a sub $40 bottle. It's a five-year-age bourbon, a 90 proof. And it was designed for bartenders. The first time I've taken blending and said, here's the bracket that I want to fit into, right? and develop a product around that versus, you know, here's the world, how do you want to develop that product? So it's a different take on it. And I like to say this is a good one to kind of exercise our palate for the first whiskey of the day. Okay. I don't know if you, but I haven't even had one today. So let's do it. And it's called session blend. Here's your glass. Let's do this one here.

Kerry Moynahan:
Ooh, that's pretty.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah. This one actually did a, pretty well. We haven't submitted to any competitions really yet, but it was at Bourbon and Beyond Festival. Oh, nice. And it was like in the top three bourbons out of 36 bourbons, most of them all from Kentucky as well.

Kerry Moynahan:
Where's that one? Yeah, in Louisville. Oh, the bourbon. Okay. Oh, that's got a beautiful nose.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah. So this is a classic signature blend of our two MGP mash bills that we work with, right? Aged for a minimum of five years, and the specific profile I was looking for was to be bold enough in a cocktail, yet smooth and creamy enough to be able to drink neat. If you're not quite acclimated, do cast drinks, because most of our releases are in that 110, 115 zone.

Kerry Moynahan:
And how much is this one?

Jesse Parker:
90 proof.

Kerry Moynahan:
90 proof, OK. And it's got some serious legs on it.

Jesse Parker:
It's really nice. We're really proud of this one. Like I said, it was the first time I blended something that had a different focus on it than the rest of Doc Swinson's. And it was, how do I make something that would entice a bartender to want to work with it? Yeah, this is great.

Kerry Moynahan:
I can totally see. Um, well actually I'm going to add some water on this one, but yeah, it's a good, it's not too hot, but it's got a nice, a nice bite. It's probably too much water, but that's right.

Jesse Parker:
It's got enough boldness. It'll hold up.

Announcer:
Mm.

Kerry Moynahan:
That opens up really well. Yeah. It mellows it out a little bit. That's very lovely. And this, uh, where did it go? This one right here. It's the blue level available wherever you guys are sold.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah. So we're in 27 States. Um, and since this product's only been out for a few months now, it might take a little while to get into some more of those States. Um, but we're working at really pushing this into our markets. Yeah.

Kerry Moynahan:
And do you use either of the mash bills from this one in these limited time ones?

Jesse Parker:
Yes, absolutely. So the bulk of our stock is all from MGP in Indiana, right? And of course, our whole take on it is how can you blend your whiskies to make them different and showcase those whiskies still with finishing casts or blending techniques. So the goal is we could take 400 barrels and dump them all in a vat and call it done, right? If we wanted to, but that's not what we do. We want to go through every single one of those barrels and figure out what profiles are standing out in there and take the best of those, the cream of the crop, right? Put those ones together for the profile we're looking in the bottle or in the finishing cask. So they're all a little different. Every LTO has a slightly different ratio blend of the different bourbons or rye whiskeys we work with. And all in the pursuit to make the best flavor profile. It is the end of fruit fly season, and they do love hanging out here sometimes. This stuff smells like candy to them.

Kerry Moynahan:
I mean, if I were a fruit fly, I'd be hanging out here, too.

Jesse Parker:
I mean, we're in here, so what does that make us, right? Flies on a wall! Could be a worse life, that's for sure.

Kerry Moynahan:
Right. As long as nobody smashes me. All right. Yes. So, which was the first LTO that you did out of these three?

Jesse Parker:
Out of these three right here, first LTO, so the two that truly come to mind, this is going back to my brandy background, so that was in Distilling Brandies, is the Pinot D'Acheron, which is the one I believe, does that say Pinot D'Acheron on it? Oh, that's French Toasted. Pardon, I grabbed a different one. French Toasted I did at the same time I did the Pinot D'Charent and they both are closely related because they both have to do with brandy techniques, right? So the French Toasted that I have here is a minimum of five years old. Most of it's about six, six and a half to seven years old right now. And, but it starts out in this fresh American white oak cask Quercus Alba, right? and so you're gonna get your natural like your coconut, so your coconut, your whiskey lactones, you're gonna get your caramels, your vanillas, your classic profile that you get out of American oak that you taste in a bourbon. But then I took those whiskeys after five years and then I put them in Quercus Petraea or it's a It's the lesser-talked-about French oak. So most people when they say French oak, they're talking about Quercus Robert, which is like limousine oak, right?

Kerry Moynahan:
That's what everybody talks about. And I was like, what is this?

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, and there's less of that in the world because it comes from a very specific region of France. And it's wide-grain. It's much more similar to American white oak in a lot of ways as far as structural qualities Okay, and I wanted to use a rarer type of oak found in at least American finishing and even less commonly in like cognac for example, right and It's used for usually really high-end wines, too. That's the Quercus Petraea. Okay, the tree usually has to grow almost twice as long as In order to harvest it as you would find like a how thick are they? They're quite large, and they're very stick-like, which is nice. But, you know, maybe yay in diameter. So barrel-thickness? Yeah, barrel-thickness.

Kerry Moynahan:
I'll take that one. It's as thick as a barrel.

Jesse Parker:
But the neat thing about this is it's a closed grain, so the grain, the pores are extremely tight, so there's a lot more of them, but they're a lot smaller. And you get different profiles out of it. And usually you're going to take a little bit longer time to finish your whiskey in these types of casks, right? They're usually going to give you more minerals. It's going to give you a lot of texture. And that's what I was looking for when I wanted to make this product. Instead of have like a bust of like, Here's that fresh toasted barrel quality you find in a lot of our competitors, for example. I wanted to focus more on what you're going to get out of a richer, older cognac. And that's what these barrels were able to deliver.

Kerry Moynahan:
And were they all, all three of these have cognac barrels or?

Jesse Parker:
No, they're all, they're actually all different. Um, so this one over here is our, um, uh, straight bourbon whiskey finishing Muscatel de Seto Belcasques. Um, so just outside of Lisbon. So another fortified wine that comes from Portugal. Uh, it's more like citrusy and orange forward and, um, uh, it was, uh, barrels that were a, or used to age this Muscatel for 10 years. So they're very sugar laden, which is great. This is kind of a sweeter side for even Doc Swenson's. We don't do a lot of sweet styles. This one kind of dives a little bit more into that dessert, like nice orange peel kind of dessert flavor profile with some nice sugar and caramel on top of that. And then this one is a really unique one here, Bossa Nova.

Kerry Moynahan:
Bossa nova!

Jesse Parker:
Exactly, right? Which actually translates loosely to New Wave. I thought that was a really appropriate name for this because this is bourbon that's been finished in Brazilian Ambarana wood.

Kerry Moynahan:
Ambarana wood? Yeah, exactly.

Jesse Parker:
I had not heard of Ambarana wood. Yeah, so it's neat. So basically, if you could make a barrel taste like Snickerdoodles and Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Yes, please. I'd like to try that. It's great for the holidays. And there's been a lot of unique releases of Ambrana finishes in the United States over the last year or so. They got kind of popularized in the beer industry first, which is odd. Usually it's the other way around. Usually it's spirits into beer, right? No, but a bunch of brewers started using this. It's more commonly used to age cachaças in Brazil, and beer as well. And basically, it's got a whole ton of cinnamon in it and vanillin in it, which is cinnamon and vanillin.

Kerry Moynahan:
I don't know. I think this one might be my favorite out of these three. We'll have to see.

Jesse Parker:
Well, absolutely. We should try that one last, though, because it'll make everything else taste just like cinnamon toast.

Kerry Moynahan:
Let's try this toasted guy here. Absolutely. Sponge toast. French toast.

Jesse Parker:
French toast. Yes. Uh, I thought it was kind of a fun one play on, you know, words. So it's cute. It's the time of year. I feel like that would just work out really well. Yeah. This one was a really fun one because it was the first toasted barrel I've ever worked with where it was from this French toasted release of dachshunds.

Kerry Moynahan:
That's beautiful. And that's the same, which, which, this is the limousine Oak.

Jesse Parker:
Uh, no, this is the other one. So, so, um, Cecil Oak, there's like seven different names for this tree, right? Um, but it's Quercus Petraeus or Cecil Oak or, It's more commonly grows up and it's what you'll find in like Hungarian oak as well. That's way different.

Kerry Moynahan:
Yeah. It's the same, same juice as this one.

Jesse Parker:
Same bases. Yep, exactly. So same five-year blend, a little different ratio between the two mash bills that went into these barrels. Um, for about nine months was this particular release here. That's amazing. Thank you. And this is also a 110.6 proof, 110.8, pardon. Been a little while since I looked at that label. Um, yeah, you're going to pull out some of these more like robust characteristics that you'd find in like an XO cognac, for example. Um, and that's the kind of the goal I wanted to go with it. So instead of like highlighting that fresh toast quality, I really wanted to highlight these richer characteristics that you get out of a really old cognac.

Kerry Moynahan:
Oh yeah, this one totally smells like a bourbon. Yep. This one does not.

Jesse Parker:
No, it's pretty smooth for 110 too, I think.

Kerry Moynahan:
Yeah. I feel like it's smoother than this one.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, that's 90, right? So a lot of that's technique, right? I employ a lot of techniques that are all like generally historic based from different parts of the industry. So whether it's been fortified wines or other spirit production, right? And adapt that to American whiskeys. That's like, I just like history and processing.

Kerry Moynahan:
Okay. So on to, That one or this one? This one's last you said. Yeah.

Jesse Parker:
We're going to finish up with any of the LTOs or all the LTOs here. Uh, we'd want to finish up. Yeah. With the bossa nova and bossa nova is, is a wild one. It's going to take you to taste buds to a whole nother place.

Kerry Moynahan:
Did we do the other one?

Jesse Parker:
Uh, Oh no, we have the muscatel still. Absolutely. All right. Glad you're paying attention.

Kerry Moynahan:
I'm trying. I can't compare if I don't taste them all. I mean, these two I already had, so we're going to grab a few more glasses, huh? I don't know, let's see. I might use your dim cup.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, please. Yeah, so this is the most recent release of my Muscatel Cast Finish, once again, it's a straight bourbon whiskey. And I think this one was at 105.3 proof, that was it.

Kerry Moynahan:
Okay, so far, this is my favorite on the nose.

Jesse Parker:
The Muscatel? Yeah. Yeah. This is a fun one. I really like diving into products that are really hard to find in the United States. If I can get anybody to try my whiskeys and say, ooh, what is that from? I want to learn more. And then go find a bottle of what it was finished in. That would be a winning success for me. Other than, of course, you know, picking up more Doc Swinson's.

Kerry Moynahan:
That is super creamy. Is that neat? Very oily. But it's not, again, it's not as hot as I thought it would be. I still think this one feels hotter.

Jesse Parker:
Isn't that funny? Proof matters and technique and aging do make a huge difference. This is about average of six years. So everything we do here is a minimum of five. Our ryes tend to be seven to ten years old. Wow. Kind of neat.

Kerry Moynahan:
Okay. All right. I'm going to dump this one and use this for the toasted.

Jesse Parker:
This has been probably one of my favorites recently. Once again, we're not just dumping all the casks because we think they're ready at the same time. We actually go through and pick through them. Just like we're going to do with our single barrel. We're going to see all the differences in each one of these single barrels.

Kerry Moynahan:
And for all you out there who want to taste some of this great stuff, we're doing a single barrel. First single barrel with Barrel Room Chronicles right here with Jesse Parker. Oh, I feel honored. I said, who do I want to make this the first one? Definitely. Oh, and there's my cousin taking a selfie with us in the background. All right. I digress. We're back to the show now.

Jesse Parker:
Oh, okay, all right. So the last one we're going to taste of our LTO lineup that I have right now is the Hot Topic bourbon in the United States for this last entire year.

Kerry Moynahan:
Can you get it at Hot Topic? Because I would love to go there.

Jesse Parker:
I wish. I just, I don't know if the market's quite as ripe for the, you know.

Kerry Moynahan:
I don't think they have a liquor license to sell it over there at Hot Topic. Maybe. Hey, you never know, right? Is Hot Topic still around? I did see one. I mean, the last time I was shopping at Hollywood and Highland, they had one, but that was probably older than your whiskey.

Jesse Parker:
I think the last time I've been to a mall, I was a teenager, so that was at least 12 years ago.

Kerry Moynahan:
I mean, that's what we did as teenagers. Mom, I'm going to the mall. I'm going to hang out. Are you going to go shopping? No. Who goes shopping at the mall? No, you just hang out. Oh, wow. That's got a really, I get caramel on this one. Okay, okay. They're similar, but this one's a little more... This one smells the most bourbon-y, the most corny. And this one... Yeah, this one's got like a flower and a caramel kind of... All right, let's see.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, this one's neat. I'm always curious how people, if you haven't tried an albarana, I'm always curious how people react to it.

Kerry Moynahan:
What is that? Exactly. Okay, hold on.

Jesse Parker:
It was nicknamed at one point in time, is this the barrel to break bourbon?

Kerry Moynahan:
This is, this is indescribable. Isn't it wild? It's, um, I'm getting a hint of like a way far back grassy note, but not your regular grassy note. Yeah. I, I, I can't, it's fantastic. I have not tasted anything like this.

Jesse Parker:
What kind of wood was this one in again? Ambarana, Brazilian Ambarana.

Kerry Moynahan:
So these trees are... Do those trees have any fruit or anything?

Jesse Parker:
You know, they're actually legumes. I don't know what that means. Bean trees.

Kerry Moynahan:
Oh, bean trees. Yes, legumes. Duh.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, no, no. It's interesting because a lot of people call it Brazilian oak and maybe that's just a nickname for it. Beans grow in trees? Yeah. I thought they were plants. You know, like tajin, you know?

Kerry Moynahan:
I totally thought beans were plants, not trees. I'm not a bean person. But I do need a bean counter if anyone's looking to do an accounting job for the show. Come on. I digress.

Jesse Parker:
Volunteer one, right? Yeah, this is neat. And this was actually a single barrel too, so this is... I was going to say, I think this is my favorite.

Kerry Moynahan:
And of course, because it's a single barrel. Yeah.

Jesse Parker:
Well, so the fun thing is the blend really showcases more richness and depth of the cask, actually. And I did unique sets of single barrels recently. So the first release was a blend. Okay. Bossa Nova. And this was the second release of Bossa Nova was all done with single barrels to highlight how the mash bill and the uniqueness of the barrel changed the whiskey.

Kerry Moynahan:
Yeah, exactly. So how many different... barrels did you use for this for the second release? I did. And how close in flavor were they?

Jesse Parker:
So they all have the overall top note of like cinnamon, vanilla, you know, a little bit. Some of them have grassy note on them. Some of them don't though, which is really fascinating. So there's certain parts that just totally aren't there in some barrels and in other barrels it'll be like cooked corn.

Kerry Moynahan:
Yeah, I totally get this. It'll be molasses. It'll be, you know, I get this like Christmassy. I feel like if I was going to describe this in a painting, there would have been a lawnmower in the way back. to get the to get the grassy in the way back. But it would have been like all Christmas up front, like all the jingle jangle of this. I mean, I can smell the cinnamon too. Yeah, I smell the cinnamon. I can smell the caramel.

Jesse Parker:
You can't see on camera, but they're actually the barrels right behind you. They look vividly different. I mean, they're still the same shape. Oh, that's gorgeous. They're like creamy. Is this one right here? Yeah, all those ones on the end are all Ambrana barrels.

Kerry Moynahan:
Well, my camera can't see those, so I will zoom in on those bad boys.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, and that's the thing, is like, it was really, this was probably the, when I first sat down to do Ambrana casts, I was most nervous about doing this out of all the blends I've ever done. So most of my finishes are between, you know, seven months to about 11 months to a year or so.

Kerry Moynahan:
See, I liked it, I finished it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I like those too, but I had to make sure I could finish this one.

Jesse Parker:
And this was, these are also cast strength, so I did these all at cast strength, and this particular release was 113.9 proof. Wow. Yeah, and this is just the 21% mash bill. from MGP2. So I release some as 36 and some as 21 because when I make the normal blend that I produce, I blend the two mashables together after the aging process and the finishing process. Whereas some of the LTOs, I do it beforehand. It just depends on what I truly believe is going to to give it that punch of flavor. Exactly what I'm looking for. So it was a very hands-on process. And this was once again to showcase how unique these barrels are because you'll taste the barrel right next to it. I mean, you're still going to get cinnamon and vanilla, like it's very evident, but the undertones, you might miss the grass once again, or it might taste more like, you know, something else.

Kerry Moynahan:
And this is barrel number... zero zero zero zero oh this is okay it's zero so that means it doesn't exist which means it's going home with me just kidding but if you didn't count it i mean that was a bottle zero zero zero zero for the library's sake that's my library bottle of somebody's single barrel

Jesse Parker:
Nice, nice, nice. Yeah, actually, their barrel is right over there. It's actually 23-0001 was the barrel number.

Kerry Moynahan:
This is formula number 1532529.

Jesse Parker:
And those are not fake formula numbers either. Those are actually the formula numbers that I submit that are assigned to me from the TTB. People ask all the time, is that a fake formula number? I'm like, no, that's a real one. You can't look it up.

Kerry Moynahan:
Release number 23M21-15. And then again, bottle zero, zero, zero, zero, zero.

Jesse Parker:
That's my sample bottle.

Kerry Moynahan:
Jesse, these are great. I'm so glad I was able to come up here and taste these limited offers that I was not able to taste before. And I look forward to taking the tour with you here just in a moment and catching some more of this interesting stuff about this. Well, if you're not a distiller, what do you call yourself?

Jesse Parker:
A blending house? Yeah, we're a blending house. Yeah, absolutely. So our whole slogan is Doc Swinson's Legendary Whiskey Blenders, because that's what we want to be, right?

Kerry Moynahan:
That's what we are. We're becoming that.

Jesse Parker:
That's what's been really exciting is getting the feedback from the marketplace. I mean, we wouldn't be able to be in 27 states and have the feedback that we have without caring.

Kerry Moynahan:
Yeah. So, okay. So I always ask this. And I probably asked this two years ago. For those of you who haven't seen season one, check out our episode with Jesse for his very first podcast ever. Woohoo! Was with us. Let's talk about the five-year plan.

Jesse Parker:
The five-year plan. Make more good whiskey.

Kerry Moynahan:
You'd be surprised how many times I hear that.

Jesse Parker:
I know, right? Is that a good answer?

Kerry Moynahan:
It's a great answer.

Jesse Parker:
No, I mean the five-year plan is really focusing more towards finalizing more of our finish casts, right? We want to like really bring that into a positive light in this country. I mean, it's already starting to gain that traction, which is great. More people are going towards finishing. When we first started this back in like 2017, there was a lot of We caught a lot of flack from a lot of people, right? You source what? Exactly. And the reality is, once again, if the majority of the profile is coming from the barrel, why not focus on the barrel as your end product, right? Get out of here, Flack. We already are working with quality distillates. That's the goal, right? Yeah. These distilleries wouldn't be around for 100 plus years if they didn't have quality distillates. Right. So why not let them focus on that portion, right? And we can manipulate that. We can do our own custom mash bills, et cetera, right? But the whole idea was to say, OK, you got to this point. Let's see where I can take it. So the reality is you can try a dozen other brands out there that all use roughly the same inputs and judge it how you will. You might like that one more than mine. You might like mine more than them. That's the idea. It's creating uniqueness. I mean, some of the biggest brands in the world were blending houses. And they became either distilleries because they were now able to produce their own product because of cash flow.

Kerry Moynahan:
Back hundreds of years ago, that's how blending started. Exactly. Like there was no, like, the distilleries just came up and said, yeah, we're going to sell some stuff. And some grocery guys came and said, I want to buy yours and yours and yours, and then mixed them all together and sold it out. Yep.

Jesse Parker:
It's the old merchant bottling term, right? I mean, that's how some, once again, the biggest brands in the world, merchant bottlers, right? They bought from farmers and distillers because that's what they wanted to focus on. They're too busy to create their own brands and try and peddle it. Right.

Kerry Moynahan:
But I can make money if I sell your stuff. Exactly. Yeah. And that's how a lot of these, like I know Shiva's is one of these places that, um, did the brothers decided to get together some stuff. And I think it's very interesting because I know they use a Glen Levitt and some other things. And I remember once when I was first on my beginning of my whiskey journey, I was in Costco of all places and I was looking and I was like looking at my bank account and then I was looking at the whiskeys. I'm like, what should I get? Knowing I was going to get at the time they didn't have very many things and knowing I was going to pick the Glen Levitt cause it was in my price point and it was good and I liked it. And this little old man came up to me, and he's like, oh no, you've got to get the shivers. And I'm like, you do know that has Glen Levitt in there, right? I was like, that's a blend of what this is. So I was like, you know what? I haven't had a shivers in a while. So I picked up a shivers, and I picked up the Glen Levitt, and I said, I could taste the Glen Levitt in the shivers, but I can definitely taste other things. So I was like, OK, maybe he was right, because it's a blend with

Jesse Parker:
All the things that I like. Well, I think that's the thing. There's a distillery in Scotland that I had the privilege of talking to one of the master blenders, and basically what they said is, here's the thing. If you really want to understand the terroir of that specific distillery, you should buy a single malt, right? But if you want to understand complexity in a whiskey, you should buy a blend, because that's the whole point of a blend. So take that as you will. And most distilleries are also blending different barrels together to produce their profiles. That's how you keep consistency. Cause barrels are unique. Why else would you pick a single barrel, right? If you truly believe that the barrel has nothing to do with it, it doesn't make any sense.

Kerry Moynahan:
That's funny. Cause in the beginning of my whiskey journey, I was not a fan of blended scotch blended anything. And I was like, no, I was like, why can't, like, I don't like, I don't like this taste. I don't like that taste. I'm not going to name brands, but there were certain ones that I was like, they're consistent, but I don't like it. And as I've been going through this journey, especially in the last two years, I'm starting to get a lot of really, really good blends. And I'm like, where were these when I first started? And they weren't around. Like it was a consistent, like we're going to use this, this and this. They've been using it for all this time. But now I'm getting things. I mean, there are a lot of one-offs and there are a lot of limited editions, but they're fantastic. And then, you know, it's, it's blowing my mind because when I first started my journey, I was like, Blends black like I felt like in the olden days they would just like Get the crap that nobody wanted put it together and say hey, we're gonna sell this I've heard that more times than you can imagine and now it's like we're gonna take the good stuff and that guy's good stuff and that guy's good stuff or All three of our good stuff and make it into something fantastic And now I'm having this really big appreciation for blends that I didn't used to have so that's awesome to slap on me for not appreciating earlier in my life.

Jesse Parker:
Hey, to be fair, there was a time called the 70s that basically ruined whiskey. Consumer sentiment was not for it. So a lot of, I think that's a big difference, especially in like American whiskey, for example, where you have blended whiskey and then you have whiskey that's been blended, right? So we are blending whiskey, but we are not a blended whiskey. Those are technical definitions. Those are different things. Right. We're blending whiskey. It is not a blended whiskey, which was more perceived as like a lower quality, something really light in flavor. It was trying to get it closer to basically kind of vodka.

Kerry Moynahan:
It was like, here's something to get you drunk. Exactly. And you can use it to mix.

Jesse Parker:
And it was cheap.

Kerry Moynahan:
And it was cheap. But now it's become a really fantastic art form. Absolutely. And I am like with the likes of you and the likes of Joe over at Barrel Craft, Craft Barrel. Barrelcraft, and then Stephanie over at Dewar's, she's doing all kinds of, like, I didn't used to like Dewar's. I, you know, seven years ago, I was working in Anguilla, this island in the Caribbean, and they had very little, it was all rum, and I was like, oh, they have Dewar's, okay, fine, I'll have it, and I'm like, well, I went to, recently I went to a tasting, And Stephanie was there and she brought out all the stuff that she's been doing and it's all blends and I was like, this is magic. This is not what it was when I first had it. So I'm, I'm really embracing the blending.

Jesse Parker:
That's awesome. That's good to hear. I mean, why not? Like that's, that's the point. Like I, I mean, I, Once again, I think it was your cousin, right? That just said earlier, like you might be an amazing painter. You probably don't make the paint. You blend the paint to get the colors you're looking for to make the masterpiece, right? But you're not likely physically making the paint. I always use like the food analogy, right? We're a chef, right? That's what we do. Like we source the ingredients that we want to work with because of the quality we're looking for and the trajectory we're looking for. And then we assemble those pieces in order to make a dish that you're gonna want. That's the whole idea.

Kerry Moynahan:
Well, Jesse, as usual, your whiskeys have blown me away, and I'm very excited to go on to the next phase here and pick our barrel for the barrel pick. Absolutely. And, you know, we'll see you again soon.

Jesse Parker:
I love it. Thanks, Carrie. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

Kerry Moynahan:
Up next, join me in tasting through several barrels to find BRC's first ever barrel pick. Plus, I'll give you a sneak peek of our bottling plant tour, which can be seen in its entirety on our Ko-fi site. Stay with us. We are here in the warehouse.

Jesse Parker:
Sneaking here.

Kerry Moynahan:
And I'm gonna, hold on, I'm gonna smell this.

Jesse Parker:
Oh yeah. Isn't that fun?

Kerry Moynahan:
That smells good. It's super aromatic. So this one is a rye with

Jesse Parker:
Yes, this is a blend of two different ryes from MGP, and they were six years old when they went into the barrel. They are now hitting nine years right now, as we're speaking, and it's been finished in high ester Jamaican rum casks. All right, let's try it. Hence the aromatics, right?

Kerry Moynahan:
There we go. It's got a great smell, yeah. Yeah, it's like fruity. I'm gonna come on this side.

Jesse Parker:
I haven't tried these in about two months actually. So I usually cycle through and like pay attention to my barrels like on a, you know, weekly I pick a set and I say these are what I'm gonna focus on this week, the next week, next week. This is also 118 proof.

Kerry Moynahan:
I was gonna say, what is the proof on that? Because it's pretty hot.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah. It's good. It's pretty wild, huh?

Kerry Moynahan:
That actually might hurt my tongue a little bit.

Jesse Parker:
I just really wanted to showcase how the rye can interact with the high ester in this particular barrel, really focused on more high esters than all my other barrels.

Kerry Moynahan:
And what kind of barrel is that? Because I noticed it's pretty old looking.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, so these were originally from a small little teeny Tennessee distiller that everybody in the world knows. Okay. So they were used originally to age Tennessee whiskey and then they were sent to Jamaica and they were used to age high ester Jamaican rum for 20 years. Wow. Before I got my hands on them. Wow. So this is where you get like, yeah, you get like a lot. like white coffee, molasses, pear. I mean, all that stuff really comes through on these. And I wanted to challenge this and see how long I could leave these in the cask to see if that profile either escalated further or if it actually mellowed out. And the fun thing is, it escalated for the first about year and a half or so. And then it actually started mellowing out more and amalgamating better towards each other. They're actually homogenizing in a gorgeous way so that you have less dips. like separation between the rye and the rum itself. A lot of what I want to focus on here is texture, as well as balance between the whiskeys. And this was just kind of one of the first fun experiments for some of the longest things I've done finishing on. The other ones are Madeira Cass, I've done over four years. And then some Olorosa Sherries. which are hiding around here somewhere.

Kerry Moynahan:
All right. Well, this is fantastic. Let's try the next one. See what we got. Perfect.

Jesse Parker:
Absolutely. These were Ruby ports that were used for close to a decade or so, um, to really give a nice barrel expression and facilitate a gorgeous like fruit bouquet. Okay. Let's try this.

Kerry Moynahan:
Yeah. Let's pull some out here.

Jesse Parker:
And this is only one mash bill from MGP as well. It's our 36% high rye. I really think it actually balances more with the fruit.

Kerry Moynahan:
Okay. All right, here you go, sir. Oh, yeah, I can see the red in here.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, the color is absolutely gorgeous. In natural lighting, it's just this beautiful mahogany hue.

Kerry Moynahan:
Oh, yeah, that's got a beautiful smell.

Jesse Parker:
And it's around 104 proof.

Kerry Moynahan:
That's the money right there. Yeah. This might be the one.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, these are really good.

Kerry Moynahan:
This might really be the one guys. This is great.

Jesse Parker:
Yeah. It focuses, you get a little bit of that leathery in the background, but then it's like mostly this gorgeous like red fruit, you know, like, like a jam. You got raspberries, some blackberry. Logan, if you've ever tried one.

Kerry Moynahan:
I think we have a winner. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. All right. But we'll try a couple more to see how it goes. But so far this is, this is number one right now.

Jesse Parker:
That's it. Doc Swenson's Ruby port.

Kerry Moynahan:
Ruby port. All right. Onto the next one. All right, so here we are. We're going to taste the Armagnac barrel. And how long have you had this one going?

Jesse Parker:
Yeah, so these ones have been going since basically the end of spring this year. And these Armagnac casks were originally used to age Armagnacs for up towards 40 years. So they're quite old casks, as you can see.

Kerry Moynahan:
They're like my age.

Jesse Parker:
I love it. Now, the bourbon in them started at six years old. So we're somewhere in that like six, six and a half, a little bit over. And these are all individual mash bills. of our MGP base. Gosh, this is already so aromatic. I think I love about Armagnac is it just, it's a whole other level that you can actually experience like the farm on it, right? You can actually get to the vineyard in it. And you just get these gorgeous profiles of fruit and leather.

Kerry Moynahan:
Never put any back.

Jesse Parker:
No, we look at it.

Kerry Moynahan:
Oh, wow.

Jesse Parker:
All the excess.

Kerry Moynahan:
That has a beautiful nose.

Jesse Parker:
Isn't that gorgeous? Yeah. And this is a proper cast strength. So the barrels that got dumped together to make the blend that went into these, right, um, is about 114 proof or so. So that's currently what's in the glass.

Kerry Moynahan:
All right, let's check it out.

Jesse Parker:
These are the first Armagnacs I've ever gotten my hands on. So,

Kerry Moynahan:
O-M-G. Is that good? It is so good. We did an Arm & Neck episode a few months back on season two and I fell in love with it. I mean I had brandy like early college a friend of mine and I would like pretend like we'd be like we'd shoot it in these brandy snifters because we were stupid and we'd say shoot it and we'd go oh that was smooth. But, like, it was cheap brandy because that's all we could afford. But we never had Cognac or Armagnac or anything like that. And now that I'm, you know, older and wiser and more refined palate... Traveling the world for spirit's sake.

Jesse Parker:
Traveling the world for spirit's sake. Armagnac is really more or less that brandy that is distilled primarily for the purpose to augment wine production, right? So when there's a year that wine production might be a little bit down, and they sell more Armagnac. That's very traditional. It's very farm-oriented. It's like the mezcal of the tequila world, right?

Kerry Moynahan:
I mean, I don't know. I was all about that port a minute ago. Now I think I want this one.

Jesse Parker:
I won't blame you. We have a problem here when we do single barrel picks, especially our finished cast single barrel picks, where I'll give people, you know, five unique ones to try, and it's like, ooh, this one, this one, this one, this one. Oh, no, okay, I like this one more than that one. The thing that I think is great is that I'm doing finishing in a way that you won't pick one out as bad. You like them all. You just have to pick the one that is your favorite. Right.

Kerry Moynahan:
That's which is hard. It's very hard, but I think this is it. I think, I think for barrel pick, I think this is very unique and it's very different from anything that I've seen, especially from anything I've seen from you.

Jesse Parker:
I've never done an Armagnac before.

Kerry Moynahan:
Um, so I think we have a winner, a real winner, chicken, chicken dinner, not the port. I mean, I'll just buy a bottle, but this, This is our cask, folks, so stay tuned on see how you can get one of the bottles from this barrel pick here at Barrel Room Chronicles. Jesse, as always, it's a pleasure.

Jesse Parker:
Thank you. Appreciate it.

Kerry Moynahan:
Cheers. All right, I'm here in the bottling plant here with Jesse Parker, and we're looking at all this beautiful equipment.

Jesse Parker:
It's capable of bottling all sorts of different types of products. That's really what we cut our teeth in, was developing products for other people originally, and then wandered down into the finishing in Doc Swinson's path, which is, of course, our favorite part, right? It's our baby. That's what we did. So this bottling line is where, well, all the stainless steel is. The other building's all barrels. When we pick our barrels, they get to come over to this building. We dump them and they get blended based upon the recipes we're looking for in these two blend tanks right here, which are actually pilfered from an old dairy in Portland of all things. Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're really into like finding equipment that's already been used and repurposing it for bottling. Cause why not? Plus you save a couple bucks and I'm a bit of an engineer at heart. Um, I built this line myself actually. That's fantastic. You know, with obviously people that actually are mechanics and machinists, but um, Yeah. So this is this is where the Doc Swinson's is all bottled up, which is kind of nice because we actually have our own bottling line. A lot of companies don't. And it also helps us preserve the quality standards that we're looking for, because we dictate exactly what that is on every single stage. Once our barrels come into play here.

Kerry Moynahan:
If you'd like to see the rest of the tour, visit our Ko-Fi site and become a member. World of Wheezy is up next. Stay with us. Like what you've seen on BRC? Want to see more? Experience more? And maybe even taste more? Then head over to our Ko-fi site and become a member of the Barrel Room Parlor. By choosing the Copper Level Membership, you'll have exclusive access to videos related to topics discussed on the podcast and blog posts for members only. As an Amber member level, you'll enjoy everything from our Copper level as well as various spin-off series including The Cutting Room Floor and Kindred Spirits. In addition, the Amber membership includes exclusive discounts to live in-person events. To join, visit www.barrelroomchronicles.com and click on Become a Member in the navigation bar. Or go straight to our Ko-fi site at ko-fi.com and click on the membership link. Once you've joined, you'll have access to everything your chosen level has to offer. You'll even be able to participate with the show by commenting on videos and other posts. Don't wait! Sign up today for exclusive content and event discounts in the Barrel Room Parlor. Louise, we're here again. We are. And we have had Doc Swinson's on before and I have a bottle of his straight bourbon whiskey right here just to show what the bottle looks like generally. But as I told you before when I was up in Washington over the holidays I went up to Doc Swinson's in person, got to see Jesse in person again. I met him at Tales of the Cocktail a couple years back And we have a sample here from our barrel pick, which is an Armagnac finish. And I'm going to let you taste that and tell me what you think we would do with that. I have a little bit in my glass already.

Chef Louise Leonard:
Oh, you got a head start. I do. Oh, I see how you do.

Kerry Moynahan:
Well, I want to make, you know, it's really good. And I wanted to make sure there was at least something left for you. So before we go, so long. And tell me what you get on the nose there. Oh,

Chef Louise Leonard:
That smells amazing. Doesn't it?

Kerry Moynahan:
Yeah, yeah. All right, so go ahead and take a sip and tell me what you think you would want to do with this. Oh yeah, right?

Chef Louise Leonard:
Yeah, I mean it's hot in the best way,

Kerry Moynahan:
Well, cause it's not finished. I mean, it's still finishing. You're having like a, it's, it's a barrel pick and you're drinking some that's, it's not ready. Yeah. Yeah. But when I tasted it, I was like, Oh, this is going to be good.

Chef Louise Leonard:
Yeah. It's delicious. And the first thing that I thought of with Armagnac 100% is duck or some sort of fowl. It could be goose. It could be duck. It could be pheasant. Um, I love the dark meat fowl that could, uh, that you could make using, um, the spirit. I think like if you did a version of Duck L'Orange, and you flambéed with this particular armagnac, if you, you know, there's Basically, Armagnac and fruit and birds all go together. You could do it with chicken. If you're in your house and you're like, I'm sorry everything you're talking about sounds like expensive or I don't have it here or I can't get it at the supermarket. Okay, go get a chicken, have this, get some oranges, have butter, have a little bit of sugar, have some vinegar in your house, and you can make a really delicious braised bird dinner with this whiskey. For sure. Fantastic.

Kerry Moynahan:
Now would you put the whiskey in the sauce or would you just pair it?

Chef Louise Leonard:
Oh, both. Like, I mean, I try to put it in and drink it on the side for sure. Like, um, no, but in the sauce, like the one thing that everyone should know when you're cooking with like a spirit like this, you have to cook the liquor out there. Sometimes you can't just dump it in the liquor or the alcohol. Oh, sorry. The alcohol. Yes. You have to cook the alcohol out. So if you are, you know, one way I would do it is get some onions, saute them in a pan in butter, cook, cook, cook, cook, splash in some of the spirit. It'll flambe and then it'll dissipate. And then you put in stock, some orange juice, your chicken and everything. And simmer away and serve it and you're done. Like, I mean, you could make a really fancy tasting dish in like 30 minutes with a very, you know, like delicious, fancy spirit, like easily.

Kerry Moynahan:
Fantastic. Well, I'm glad I was able to bring a sample back of the of the barrel pick. So those of you out here watching, if you're interested in getting the barrel pick with the Armagnac finish, it'll be ready Soonish and as soon as it's ready and Jesse's got it all good to go We will let you know so that you can get your own bottle of it. Obviously, it'll be a little bit different label But yes, we will have the the barrel room Chronicles barrel pick of the Armagnac finished Doc Swinson's Cheers. Thanks Louise and until next time We'll see you then That does it for today's show. To read notes on this episode or learn more about our guests, please visit barrelroomchronicles.com. Want to interact with the show or have questions for our guests? Then ask them on our socials or send us an email. Or better yet, leave us a voicemail on our website. If you like what you heard, please rate and subscribe to the podcast. If you really liked it and you want to show your support, buy us a whiskey through our Ko-fi site at ko-fi.com slash BRC, or become an exclusive member of the Barrel Room Parlor. If you work in the whiskey or spirits industry or just have a deep passion for whiskey and want to share your spirits journey, register to be a guest through our website. Last but not least, please enjoy your spirits responsibly. Thanks for joining me. Until next time, so long.

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